Five Questions with James III

Is it incompatible to love legacy media and also want to disrupt it? And while we’re at it, how do we navigate our unconscious bias? What if the answers to all this were covered in the Kenan & Kel punk rock school of acting...or in conversation with James III.

Michael Melamedoff sits down with writer, creator, actor and podcast host James III to discuss everything from loving legacy media to how crowdfunding helps you better understand and connect to your audience.

This interview has been condensed for length and clarity.

MICHAEL MELAMEDOFF: I’m very excited to be chatting today with a collaborator who I truly love working with: James III. He has an incredible and extensive filmography across film, TV and podcasting, having worked on everything from Adam Ruins Everything to the podcast Black Men Can't Jump [In Hollywood] which he created and hosts, as well as a writer, co-creator, star, and EP of the sketch comedy series Astronomy Club on Netflix. James III, thanks for joining me here today. 

JAMES III: Thank you for having me. Bless you for that intro.

MICHAEL: I love a good introduction. It's that part of me that spent six years working at a talent agency bubbling up to the surface.

[They laugh.]

MICHAEL: So James, one of the things that I just love about you is your real love for legacy media. It permeates everything you do. There’s zero snark about it. I remember when you were hired to work on the All That reboot, and subsequently the second Good Burger movie, there was just such unbridled joy from you, both in-person and on social media. Can you tell me a little bit about the connection you have to the media that you grew up with? 

JAMES: I mean, I was not raised by television in the way that my mom would be like, “Sit in front of the TV and watch TV.” But at the same time, getting a television in my room at 13 meant a lot, and I always say — specifically thinking about All That and Good Burger — that I went to the Kenan and Kel school of acting. Television was very influential to me. Sure we all have our shows and things that we love, but I really feel like it had a hand in molding and shaping me in a way that I appreciate and carry into my work today.

MICHAEL: What are the core tenants of the Kenan and Kel school of acting? 

JAMES: [laughs] I think it’s like, nothing can be too big and no emotion can be felt too strongly. Also just from a writing or a comedic standpoint, the non-sequitur is really appreciated and the unexpected or absurd is really embraced. I don’t know if they would use the word punk rock in that way, but there’s something very kind of punk rock about them.

MICHAEL: I grew up loving Nickelodeon, and I would argue that when you’re a kid, there is very little that is more punk rock than Nickelodeon. It was a network dedicated to centering children’s experiences and viewpoints on the world, and was very interested in challenging authority and wanting perspectives that placed children in positions of power over adults. So I think thinking about Kenan and Kel as punk rock is — I’m all for it. And I think Joey Ramone would be too.

[James laughs.]

MICHAEL: In spite of your obvious and real love for this kind of content, so much of the work that you have authored as a creator or as a staffer — I’m thinking of your sketch show Astronomy Club which took big swings at established pop culture, and your recent short film that you co-wrote and co-starred in Mahogany Drive, even Adam Ruins Everything and your podcast — they are all works deeply concerned with the critical reconsideration of media. Talk to me about why you think it’s important to take on the very media that you love and to poke holes in it.

JAMES: There’s two types of Hollywood: there’s mainstream Hollywood, and there’s Hollywood or films that are made for and cater towards Black people. There are some people who might just call all of this, “movies” — I want to first and foremost say that. And then there’s people like me who see the categories, or felt hit over the head with the categories growing up. And a lot of times the way that people of color and other minorities are represented in “mainstream Hollywood” versus Black Hollywood or niche markets is a very specific kind of box. I think that that can lead to these sort of unconscious biases and prejudices developing — things that people don’t even really understand they’re being exposed to. 

When it started to become clear to me that these were the types of things that we’re being exposed to, it was pretty early on — I would say maybe as early as middle school or high school — I started to notice oh there’s a pattern that’s happening that I don’t necessarily enjoy or like. So a lot of times when I’m making things it’s calling that out directly. The content that I make is trying to steer the direction of Hollywood, steer the direction of how people view things. Maybe even, hopefully, people can at least start to see those patterns and decide for themselves how they think and feel about it. Even the way Black history is taught in schools — thinking about the way that MLK is presented versus the way Malcom X is presented and what that has done to the way people view Black people in society. It’s never too late to learn a new thing.

MICHAEL: Through all this, the one thing that I hear is that you do believe that it’s possible to author change within the system, and work within an existing system. 

JAMES: A hundred percent. I mean, me as an artist — I don’t have as much control over where my message gets to, you know? The only thing that I can control is the message that I’m trying to tell. And refining that and making sure that it’s as clear as possible. There’s always gonna be the powers that be that have the money, and they can decide whether or not they want to air XYZ. Especially now in light of all of the new mergers and all of the new types of controls that are in play behind these bigger companies, things that might’ve played on one channel are not necessarily gonna play on those same channels anymore. But I do think that art can certainly affect change. And if it can’t affect change within one system, new systems will always be developed and created. Having art that is not only entertaining but has something to say is very important to me. 

MICHAEL: Speaking of who gets to decide whether our work gets made or not: you launched your own comic imprint, Rule of III. Can you tell me a little bit about the decision to launch your own line of comics, and the kind of stories that you’re telling across your new line of comic books?

JAMES: There’s a lot of different reasons for why I started Rule of III. The big one was that very thing of oh I don’t quite have the same control over what gets made or how things get made when I’m working for a company or a studio. So having that creative control where the buck stops with me in terms of the vision is a huge part of why not only I started it, but why I keep it going even on shoestring budgets or whatever. With that reality comes an even more sharpening of the message and even more specificity in the presentation — and that’s been really important to me. A lot of the types of comics that I do are personal stories that either deal with family or tackle representation in Hollywood and media. I’m also just generally trying to tell stories that illuminate things that are happening and issues that are happening in the Black and Brown communities. So it’s been really great to tell those stories. These are also types of stories that growing up I didn’t often see in comics. So it’s great to participate in that side of the sphere as well. 

MICHAEL: What I love is that even as you are telling very personal stories across these comics, they’re still really high concept stories playing out. They’re still works that lean into so many of the spaces that I know you love — comedy and fantasy.

JAMES: Yeah, that was a big motivator as well. There’s a thing that happens when you’re in this business — though it can be very beneficial at times — where you are put into a box of oh this is what you do, James III is a sketch comedian or James III is a character performer or what have you. Because I’ve had such a strong interest in genre, in sci-fi and superhero content it’s sometimes hard to prove that I have an understanding of it when people have boxed me in, so that was a big part of it — to establish that I have an understanding of this space and a genuine love and infinity for it, and I think a knack for telling these types of stories.

MICHAEL: With both Rule of III and your recent short film, Mahogany Drive, a horror-comedy, you took to crowdfunding to raise money for both projects. You’re a filmmaker who works within the system, you’ve been staffed onto major network television shows, you have agents and managers, and in spite of that you’re still crowdfunding as a source of getting your work made. Can you tell me a little bit about why more filmmakers and storytellers should be thinking about crowdfunding and what’s the value that you see in it? 

JAMES: Cort Jefferson had a great speech when he accepted the Oscar for American Fiction where he talked about how he wished the model was different. I think his budget was 10 million or something — that he wished more 10 million dollar movies were made versus these larger budget movies, and everything sort of relying on that [model]. It essentially stems from that idea. If not crowdfunding, if not creating our own work, we are beholden to the powers that be to write us a check. The reality is even if they may not want the story that you’re trying to tell, there are people out there who do. If you have a desire and a passion for that specific story that you’re telling, chances are there are people out there who want to hear that story and want to hear it from you, specifically. What is great about crowdfunding is it puts the reins not only in your hands, but it puts you in direct touch with audiences that are interested in your work. 

So with Mahogany [Drive], my collaborators and I all crowdfunded together. And with Rule of III, I’ve had a handful of Kickstarter campaigns. With each one I’m seeing who’s sticking around and who’s following up — I’m seeing my fanbase sharpening. I wish I could say I’m seeing my fanbase growing significantly, but I am certainly seeing it sharpening with who’s interested in it and where those eyes are. As much as crowdfunding is valuable just to get something made, the other side of that coin is the direct connection with the audience.

MICHAEL: I think that ability to not just find your audience, but to test marketing ideas to an audience is really, really critical and such a great part of crowdfunding that people don’t talk enough about or think enough about. Because ultimately, I don’t think many of us came into this industry — I certainly didn’t come to this industry — thinking that we’re going to create IP, right? I just came to tell stories. But now there’s this premium placed on creating IP, and part of what I’ve come to realize is that it’s not enough to have a great idea. You need to have a great idea that shows it has an audience already attached to it. 

So I guess my last question for you is, you talked about finding an audience and sharpening that audience as you move forward with your work in the coming year — what are some of the ways that you’re starting to think about growing that audience and thus grow the value of your intellectual property?

JAMES: What the last few years have been is just getting different ideas, new ideas, and seeing who grabs at what. But the big goal for this year and beyond is more grassroots. Literal boots on the ground — going to Cons, going to events, talking to people and signing things. It’s the other side of creating an idea that I have spent less attention on in my life and in my career. But the marketing, the networking, the shaking hands, and the literal just hawking my content [laughs] and trying to get my books out there is what the main focus of this year and the coming years is going to be. I have now a few books and a good amount of fun stories that just need to be shared. So that’s the goal.

MICHAEL: Well I’m incredibly excited for you and for your audience to find you because I just think you’re such a talented storyteller and a wonderful person to boot. Excited to continue to support Rule of III and to see where these projects take you. 

JAMES: I appreciate it.

MICHAEL: Thanks, James.

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